Sen. Coons: “The Attorney General, I believe, has chosen to skip this hearing today in order to avoid difficult questions about the scope of his recusal”

Sen. Coons on Sessions’ recusal: “It is the scope of recusal that is utterly unclear”

Sen. Coons: “I have an unresolved question about whether or not that's why the attorney general failed to appear before us today, to avoid having to answer direct questions about the scope of his recusal”

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Chris Coons (D-Del.), a member of the Senate Judiciary and Appropriations Committees, today questioned Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein at a Commerce, Justice, and Science (CJS) Subcommittee hearing.  Attorney General Jeff Sessions was scheduled to appear at the hearing today, but cancelled his appearance over the weekend.

“As has been discussed by several others, it is the scope of [Attorney General Sessions’] recusal that is utterly unclear both to lawyers and non-lawyers on this committee,” said Senator Coons.

"I have an unresolved question about whether or not that's why the attorney general failed to appear before us today, to avoid having to answer direct questions about the scope of his recusal," said Senator Coons. "I do appreciate and respect your appointment of a highly talented special counsel, there have been questions from both sides that imply strong support for his independence and his conduct, and I appreciate the care with which you are answering my questions, but I am simply going to conclude by saying, I have unanswered questions that perhaps can only be answered by the attorney general himself and it is my hope that we will have him appear before both the Judiciary Committee and the Appropriations Committee charged with overseeing for the department that he is currently directing." 

Full video and audio available here.

Senator Coons’ opening remarks and Q&A with Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein are below:

Senator Coons: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein, thank you for being today. Obviously, you're here because Attorney General Sessions abruptly canceled his commitment to appear before this committee.

It is Attorney General Sessions' job to be here today and the fact that he has again chosen to skip this hearing is unacceptable. And the Attorney General, I believe, has chosen to skip this hearing today in order to avoid difficult questions about the scope of his recusal, questions which have already been asked of you by several senators, but I'll attempt to explore a little more further. 

And, I do think it is important that we have a full and engaged conversation with the attorney general about the Department of Justice in front of both the Judiciary Committee and the Appropriations Subcommittee responsible for the entity he still leads. 

But, let me start briefly with some good news, if I might. Mr. Rosenstein, you're here in part to talk about the budget of the Department of Justice. In 2014, Congress demonstrated its commitment to the Victims of Child Abuse Act by unanimously reauthorizing that in both chambers. And, the Children's Advocacy Centers, funded by this law, conducts forensic interviews that help serve law enforcement needs and meet the needs of child victims, and I am pleased that the president's FY18 budget request fully funds these programs. So, I thought we'd start with at least one positive thing we can talk about.

As has been discussed by several others, it is the scope of recusal that is utterly unclear both to lawyers and non-lawyers on this committee. You're here instead of the attorney general, and you're here as acting attorney general with regard to the special counsel, and you exercised the hire and would exercise the fire decision with regards to Special Counsel Bob Mueller. That's because Attorney General Sessions is recused from that matter. 

On May 9, you delivered a memo to Attorney General Sessions entitled 'Restoring Public Confidence in the FBI.' And your memo exclusively focused on Director Comey's conduct during the Clinton email investigation and concluded 'the way the director handled the conclusion of that investigation was wrong' and you ultimately stated having refused to admit his errors the director cannot be expected to implement the necessary corrective actions. Is that roughly correct? Am I citing that correctly?

Deputy AG Rosenstein: I believe it is, yes.

Senator Coons: And, on that same day, Attorney General Sessions then sent a memo to President Trump relying exclusively on your memo where the attorney general recommends that Director Comey be removed. Is that correct?

Deputy AG Rosenstein: I believe that is correct.

Senator Coons: And, during his January 10 confirmation hearing, AG Sessions stated 'he would recuse himself from any matters involving campaigns for the president of the United States and, specifically, investigations into Secretary Clinton's email server.' Is that correct?

Deputy AG Rosenstein: That's my understanding, senator.

Senator Coons: So, why did you write a memo to Attorney General Sessions exclusively discussing a matter that, as I understand it, Attorney General Sessions explicitly told us in Congress he was recused from. And why was that an appropriate basis for him to make a hire/fire recommendation to the president.

Deputy AG Rosenstein: Well, senator, I don't think that's a question for me to answer. I have said in my previous briefings in the Senate and the House that my memo truthfully reflects my views. I'm not in position to comment on anybody else. From my perspective, that memo is about what it's about. I do not know what was on anybody else's mind. I understand there are serious allegations that have been raised, and I think that it is up to Director Mueller to determine in the first instance whether any of the issues within the scope of this investigation. That's why I haven't commented on it. I just appointed him several weeks ago. I haven't talked to him about the substance of the investigation since then, but I recognize the importance of these questions, and I think that Director Mueller ought to review that and make a determination of whether or not he believes it is within the scope of his investigation.

Senator Coons: I appreciate that answer. It is distinct from an answer I got from you previously in another answer, so I want to make sure I understand you. Well, and I'll proceed carefully and let's see if we can get to an answer that's appropriate in a public setting. Is it not your argument that the attorney general made a recommendation to hire or fire the FBI director because that is outside his recusal? The scope of his recusal doesn't affect his ability to manage the department. 

Deputy AG Rosenstein: I do have a personal opinion about that, senator, I just don't think it's appropriate for me to be expressing my personal opinion about that. I hope I haven't said anything inconsistent with what I've said elsewhere. And please let me know if I have, but yeah I do not want to comment on the recusal. I think the attorney general made the decision recused, I wasn't there at the time as you know. And the decision had already been made before I arrived about what matters would be appropriate for the attorney general to handle. When I stepped in, I continued consistent with what had been done by the career professionals in the department, and I believe that I have faithfully within the department honored that recusal with regards to matters pending in the Department of Justice. But, I just don't want to comment on what may have been in anyone's mind or offering an opinion about that, because it's not for me to make those decisions.

Senator Coons: Well, it is exactly I think why Senator Schatz asked a whole series of questions about the scope of recusal because I am a lawyer, Senator Schatz may not be, he asked better questions than I did, but I also am having real difficulty understanding the scope of the recusal, it's contours in definition, and I have an unresolved question about whether or not that's why the attorney general failed to appear before us today, to avoid having to answer direct questions about the scope of his recusal. I do appreciate and respect your appointment of a highly talented special counsel, there have been questions from both sides that imply strong support for his independence and his conduct, and I appreciate the care with which you are answering my questions, but I am simply going to conclude by saying, I have unanswered questions that perhaps can only be answered by the attorney general himself and it is my hope that we will have him appear before both the Judiciary Committee and the Appropriations Committee charged with overseeing for the department that he is currently directing. Thank you. 

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